Questions for God

By the way, you guys are debating a topic that you obviously agree on in the most important manner. You don't know what you are talking about. You know that you currently like to embrace an idea that interests you. This brings us back to where we started...in your body, on the ground.

It started with a question for God. This question was coming from a man. All three of you are qualified to answer the question, in which you are speaking for God. And the best you can do is be wrong...because no one is right until you leave this life.

So, if you subscribe to the idea that this life has no meaning, are you not contradicting yourself at exactly this moment?

Wade

SubsidingInsanity wrote:

maguru wrote: The link wouldn't work but I am familiar with quantum physics and it is all built on theory. There is no proof, just possibilities. The scientists will tell you the same.

Here is the link.

www.vision.net.au/~apaterson/science/physics_quantum.htm

You may need to copy and paste it as there are some bugs in this site. For some reason only half the link hyperlinked. The scientists will tell you that science never proves anything. It's all theories. The existence of the universe is just a theory.

maguru wrote: If the possibilities become a reality, which some do, then it is real.

The possibilities appear real only to the observer.

THE OBSERVER EFFECT

Fundamental to contemporary Quantum Theory is the notion that there is no phenomenon until it is observed. This effect is known as the 'Observer Effect'. 1

The implications of the 'Observer Effect' are profound because, if true, it means that before anything can manifest in the physical universe it must first be observed. Presumably observation cannot occur without the pre-existence of some sort of consciousness to do the observing. The Observer Effect clearly implies that the physical Universe is the direct result of 'consciousness'.

This notion has a striking resemblance to perennial esoteric theory which asserts that all phenomena are the result of the consciousness of a single overlighting Creative Principle or the Mind of God.

There is a delicious irony in all this. Contemporary Western scientific theory postulates that human consciousness is solely a result of the workings of a physical brain, yet if the observer effect is correct, the physical matter comprising a brain cannot come into existence until it is the subject of observation by some pre-existing consciousness.

www.vision.net.au/~apaterson/science/observer_effect.htm

maguru wrote: I wouldn't say that I am skeptical. I understand how the human mind works and how we perceive through our personal experiences. This was the same for Jesus, Helen Schuman, Ekhart Tolle, and Uncle Tom Cobbly and all. Personal experiences from one point of view is not reliable and I test them as I would in any experiment.

Then you are testing them from your point of view and changing what is there in the process. Research Copenhagen Interpretation.

In fact what the Copenhagen Interpretation revealed is that energy is waves and when ATTENTION is placed on it, all other probabilities collapse (wave forms) and a "particle" (matter) is formed.

The thoughts and perceptions of the scientist doing the observing determined which one it was...waves or particles.

Because This Is SO Significant I REPEAT....

The subatomic particles (waves) being studied by the scientists responded to, transmuted and appeared as particles (matter) based on the individual thought of the scientist who was studying it. In other words it was the scientists mode of THINKING and "perceptions" that determined which one it would be!!

In other words the energy being studied took form immediately based on the thoughts and beliefs of the scientist who was observing it IF that scientist expected to see particles and if he didn't it remained as WAVES!!

www.abundance-and-happiness.com/quantum-physics.html

maguru wrote: In saying the universe does not exist and is just a projection of consciousness, I have to ask "how did the image of a non-existent universe get into consciousness in the first place'? There is no awareness without 'an-other' to become aware of.

That is a profound question that is open to speculation. If you are interested I can give you the ACIM explanation, but to my knowledge science doesn't address it yet.

Awareness of the universe i.e. planets, stars moons, black-holes is experienced by all of us who care to look. If it was just my consciousness affecting the object, I would see it differently to others and I don't believe this is true.

As for an object reacting to the observer, it's still a case of, as you say of "The possibilities appear real only to the observer." All this proves is that everything is subject to our subjectivity. How can we be objective?

Why would the question of 'how did the image of a non-existent universe appear in the consciousness?' be open to speculation? I believe there is much that we are not yet aware of but if there is nothing more to become aware of, then awareness will remain where it is.

I was thinking only this morning of how the 'spiritual search' is geared to make sense of one's life and to answer the 'who am I' question. Those who think they have done it are content with their own answers and think it is the same for others, but it is not. There may be similarities and this is when we relate to some of their conclusions and not others. We dismiss anything that does not sit within our relationship with life.

I don't speak from spiritual experiences alone but from humanities experiences of spirituality. The cause and effect. Does it unite us or divide us?

soffty wrote: By the way, you guys are debating a topic that you obviously agree on in the most important manner. You don't know what you are talking about. You know that you currently like to embrace an idea that interests you. This brings us back to where we started...in your body, on the ground.

It started with a question for God. This question was coming from a man. All three of you are qualified to answer the question, in which you are speaking for God. And the best you can do is be wrong...because no one is right until you leave this life.

And how do you know that?

So, if you subscribe to the idea that this life has no meaning, are you not contradicting yourself at exactly this moment?

Wade

Life may or may not have meaning but the speculation surrounding it makes for good discussions. If the meaning of life turns out to be an individual, subjective view, then it means jack-shit in the bigger scheme oft things. :evil:

maguru wrote: Awareness of the universe i.e. planets, stars moons, black-holes is experienced by all of us who care to look. If it was just my consciousness affecting the object, I would see it differently to others and I don't believe this is true.

You assume that there are others. That is too much of an assumption according to Quantum Physics. Just because you experience yourself as a separate individual does not mean it is so. We still experience time as linear even though Einstein proved that it is simultaneous. Personal experience is based on perception and it changes based of many factors.

maguru wrote: As for an object reacting to the observer, it's still a case of, as you say of "The possibilities appear real only to the observer." All this proves is that everything is subject to our subjectivity. How can we be objective?

Objectivity about a dream is impossible because dreams are made up. Within the dream "objectivity" only means what the majority is likely to accept. True Reality is objective and unchanging, but to realize it we must first wake from our dream. Such is the process of enlightenment.

maguru wrote: Why would the question of 'how did the image of a non-existent universe appear in the consciousness?' be open to speculation? I believe there is much that we are not yet aware of but if there is nothing more to become aware of, then awareness will remain where it is.

The dreamer possess' all the same knowledge he has always had, but in the dream he doesn't remember. Hence, he must wake from the dream to remember what True Reality is.

maguru wrote: I was thinking only this morning of how the 'spiritual search' is geared to make sense of one's life and to answer the 'who am I' question. Those who think they have done it are content with their own answers and think it is the same for others, but it is not. There may be similarities and this is when we relate to some of their conclusions and not others. We dismiss anything that does not sit within our relationship with life.

I don't speak from spiritual experiences alone but from humanities experiences of spirituality. The cause and effect. Does it unite us or divide us?

We all stand on the shoulders of giants, but remember to question everything. For me the ultimate truth about cause and effect is that God is the cause and The Son, which is all of us, is the effect.

The fact that we have opportunities in life, or the lack of, are the result of an initial action. What that action is and how it results in our reality as we know it now, is a question that has tremendous importance if we accept that life has importance at all.

How we can bring the wisdom of the beginnings of our fate to mankind is more important than anything we can discover in this life, since we will know these answers once we die...if we can master the path of light.

How sub particles respond to an observer have little importance because once we die we will know those simple answers to those simple questions...if we can master the path of light.

How we can offer those questions and answers to mankind is the important question if life has importance. Our life has tremendous meaning and it is probably inconvenient and egoic. We may sit here and punch buttons debating a topic, but it is, at best, a slight contributor to our purpose in life.

What does have tremendous importance at this moment is what you are now, and what you are tomorrow. You can theorize that I am wrong but I have come much closer to proving my point than any of you have here.

We are here to master our ego so we can leave this world correctly. If we can find a way to enter and leave correctly, that answers all of your questions...automatically. We can meditate, or we can write, or we can read, or we can listen to music...

We are here to have a positive attitude and radiate that attitude to all around you. We are here to make a commitment that is noticed by all around you. We are here to embrace the suffering of another and become strong within that suffering to show that other there is hope.

We are here to sacrifice and stand up for what you believe, so others will notice. We are here to smile and thank another for their existence. We are here to love and feel that love and display that love as if it was just discovered.

Life is waiting for you. Waiting for you to show who you are...discover who you are...master who you are.

A simple task such as eating less to improve your physicality, even if it costs you inconvenience such as sleep deprivation, is why you are here. Such as touching a person with no words and only a smile and having that person know that you care. Getting up ten minutes early and getting to work early. Finding one thing you could be more focused on and get resluts each week.

There are numerous ways we can get real and live a meaningful life. That is the truth of the ego. We are here for a damn good reason, and if you want to deprive yourself of that meaning, I will help if you ask me.

Go out and create.

Wade

You assume that there are others. That is too much of an assumption according to Quantum Physics. Just because you experience yourself as a separate individual does not mean it is so. We still experience time as linear even though Einstein proved that it is simultaneous. Personal experience is based on perception and it changes based of many factors.

Oh Lord the plot thickens. How can you assume there are not others?
Time has never existed. We do not experience time. We experience different positions of the earth and sun that gives us the experience of light and dark. We constructed the concept of time so we would know what time American idol is on t.v. and a very useful tool it is. In reality we experience change or evolution, for better, for worse.

Objectivity about a dream is impossible because dreams are made up. Within the dream "objectivity" only means what the majority is likely to accept. True Reality is objective and unchanging, but to realize it we must first wake from our dream. Such is the process of enlightenment.

I wasn't talking about being objective about dreams. Are you saying that our experiences are just a dream?

The dreamer possess' all the same knowledge he has always had, but in the dream he doesn't remember. Hence, he must wake from the dream to remember what True Reality is.

Who you talkin about now?

We all stand on the shoulders of giants, but remember to question everything. For me the ultimate truth about cause and effect is that God is the cause and The Son, which is all of us, is the effect.

What about the effect 'spirituality' has on humanities' experience of life?