The "come to my church" guy

I just need to get this off of chest because it has been bothering me for the last few days..

So I was having a pretty nice day earlier this week, and after a meeting, one of the guys came up to me and asked if I was doing anything and wanted to have lunch. I had kind of known this person for a while , we had talked maybe 2 or 3 times. He said he would pay so I figured "why not?"

We started off fine, but eventually he started talking about how he came to believe in the Christian God. He told me things like "There is more proof, for the existence of a man named Jesus, that walked the earth, than there is for George Washington" and " If you come to my Church, then your life will never be the same... you will see god and feel the power". I just kept listening until I realized that he was going to go on for hours if I let him.

I told him that I have only one belief, and that is " If you want something to be true, you will believe it enough, that you manifest it into reality". I said, the mind is like a lawyer, if you want to believe that what people say about Jesus is true , then you will surround yourself with people, places, and information that points to that being true. If you want to believe that what people say about Jesus is not true , then you will find everything points to that conclusion.

He didn't hear me... I forgot to mention, he was in a car accident a few years ago and has severe brain damage and dementia.. he wasn't even listening... lol , o well

He asked me if I believed in Hell and I said "no" , so then his mind went directly to "So you think that you can just run around doing all bad things and nothing will happen to you?" , again I said "No" . His head nearly exploded. I said that I think Heaven and Hell are just metaphors for states of mind and existence...

I have only one logical argument against these beliefs that make the whole structure fall apart.

And it has to follow the context of the mind that it's coming from..
My personal beliefs are that the universe, and the dimensions outside of it, exists outside of time, and therefor words like God and create are meaningless and are fabrications of the human mind in an attempt to explain the unexplainable.

So, using Christian logic to make the argument..

Is there a man that lives in the sky? Yes
Does this man have all power? Yes
Does he want humans to know that he exists? Yes
Does he have the power to make us believe that he exists? Yes

So why doesn't he do it? He wants us to have faith.

Faith in what? Faith in him.

Then why doesn't he just come out and say it? He doesn't work that way..

Why not? Do not question the Lord thy God!!


OK, that explains it. The truth is it IS unexplainable...


If he doesn't have the power to make use believe that he exists, then why call him God?

If he does have the power to make use believe in him, but doesn't do it, then that is cruel.

If he loves me then why is he cruel?

... this could go on forever.

But mostly this topic and discussion is this reason I made the website, and out of this I found that the universe is more vast and expansive than we can understand at this point in our evolution.

But, just because we can't do everything, doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything!

I know a lot of us have had similar experiences... what do you say in these situations? Or is it better to just not get involved?

I am thinking that for me, in the future I will just say things like " I don't want to talk about it"

xcerca wrote: " I don't want to talk about it"

This seems like a good response. Spiritual beliefs are deeply personal. There is certainly no obligation to discuss it if you choose not to.

xcerca wrote: My personal beliefs are that the universe, and the dimensions outside of it, exists outside of time, and therefor words like God and create are meaningless and are fabrications of the human mind in an attempt to explain the unexplainable.

Why do you think the universe lies outside of time? Is it not the basis we use to measure linear time? Also, did this guy really believe that there is a man living in the sky by the name of God? I ask because I've heard that argument brought up many times, and I have yet to find a Christian who actually believes it.

P.S. Is it possible to do something about the captcha code? The letters are quite difficult to read. :blink:

Thanks a lot,

When it comes to situations like that, I think that even beliefs (like what I am expressing now) are constructs of the ego, and when you challenge the belief, it appears that you are attacking the person, their intelligence, and sometimes even their culture and heritage -which is always a sensitive area, and greatly connected to the ego. So in my opinion aggressive confrontation should be avoided. I am friends with some Christians also, but I feel that they have a deeper understanding than some of the "off the shelf" Christianity - one of my really good Christian friends says to me " I just don't believe that God wrote the Bible, but taking human form, once or most likely several times, for various reasons, seems like somethings a loving God would do". - Not something you would normally here a Christian say...

But yes, the man that I spoke to did think as you say...

I think that God is everything, and in everything.


The statement about the universe, and all its extra-spacial dimensions being outside of time, was to mean that time ( and the perception of it) is only a relevant property in spacial dimensions. That was only to set the tone for the statements that followed, which was that terms like "create" could be irrelevant, if our space and time is just a ripple on the cosmic sea of infinite dimensions.

I am having some trouble finding a concise way to explain what I mean, sorry...


About the captca - I set it to stop after a person makes 5 posts... It has helped ALOT with spam... we used to get spammed all the time.